Excerpts from interview with Nicole Whitney of www.Newsforthesoul.com
CB: I have been very careful about doing the work described in the book – it takes people from the initial observation to how to hook up instrumentation to observe cells. Scientists have told me, “Oh boy, Cleve, if you are right, we are in trouble.” The scary thing for scientists is how much of the experiment is changed by the experimenter’s thoughts, expectations, or intentionality. I wish they would get more involved in testing this. Over in the
NW: What are they threatened about?
CB: Human thought processes may be picked up by biological material being tested. They could use this to expand on many things in the experiment. Test the power of thoughts and emotions. I can quietly get them interested, but if they want to get grants or funding, they cannot mention it. The implications are enormous. It is one thing to consider the possibility but it’s another to be out front and rattle the cage, so to speak.
NW: Why isn’t anyone doing this? All the tests, research written up, replications done.
CB: As far as standard scientific community is concerned, they don’t come to me and even challenge me as crazy – I don’t hear a word from them. They may not have the courage to be up front. It may be such a big step to take and in this country they probably won’t get funded to check it out.
NW: What if this research is proven?
CB: I do not claim to have proven it – it is biological monitoring. Spontaneity is important. If you think it out ahead of time, you can change the outcome. The scientific community wants repeatability, and if you try to get repetition, it is no longer spontaneous. The biological materials do not respond like that. The scientific method demands an exact repetition, as in physics experiments. This is closer to quantum physics. The initial experiment I designed with brine shrimp was automated in order to get away from human emotionality and thought processes. It is not easy to get this across to the average scientist in academia. In one case, they thought they could watch it through a glass window and not affect the plants. Or they try to rush the results. online serophene
As far as repeatable events are concerned, anyone can witness it with a minimum of equipment. There have been spontaneous observations, hundreds of times, but each is unique. When it comes to running an experiment, there is a question about human consciousness…you divorce yourself from the event; you get out of the area. In 1966, it was sheer accident that I noticed the water moving from the roots to the leaves, and it showed me a similar tracing to a human, so what happened when I decided to threaten the plant? It responded. You can see the tracing on the front cover of the book. I did many hours of random monitoring, not trying to make the plant do things, just letting it respond and looking to see what triggered it.
I did the first published experiment, following scientific protocol. The brine shrimp experiment to see if plants could respond to the death of brine shrimp. Back then, I constructed a mechanism with a chart drive from a polygraph with eight channels of information on one chart. Also I built a randomizer that would select at random when something would occur, all mechanical, using what was available at the time. I was not in the lab at the time of the testing. The instruments would tell me the precise time the shrimp dropped in the boiling water, terminating them, and whether the plants responded to that event. I used controls to make sure there was no electrical interference affecting the plants. Very subtle electrical charges, in the microvolt range, can be measured to show response capability.
This started in 1966 and has gone on for over 40 years. You can get enthusiasm with younger people, but they may not have access to the more expensive instrumentation. Basic Galvanic Skin Response can be obtained but it doesn’t make a record unless they videotape it, which I recommend. They have the same problems I had. Electro-encephalo-graph’s aren’t cheap. Living leaf cells, are responsive, they do not even have to be attached to the plant. Fresh beef cells are also alive. Yogurt is responsive. I found that it is tuned into human consciousness. You can videotape it and play it back to see that it responds to the thought, before the word comes out. Living things are in communication with each other, and humans seem to be out of the loop, though many are catching on.
Turtles, for example, who find their way across the ocean to the beach where they were spawned, are amazing. The scientific theories are so amusing: a sense of smell? Directional awareness? Why not test for primary perception? Quantum physicists tend to embrace my research, especially when the human cells demonstrated non-local communication over distances.
In the
NW: Any experiments done secretly by government agencies?
CB: I haven’t heard about any secret experiments. I’m in the private sector. A branch of Army Intelligence did a replication of my leukocyte research. It’s in the book.
NW: Are you familiar with the computer game, Wild Divine? It has a biofeedback device on it – and it interfaces with the player. Deepak Chopra helped produce it.
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From a longer interview in 2003:
Franci Prowse: What about dolphins?
Cleve Backster: I was interested in the ground-breaking work John Lilly did with dolphins. After all the frustrations of doing the tape recording of the underwater noises they made, which didn’t end up being extremely meaningful, I think Lilly finally determined to get rid of the wire and get a two-way communication going, mind to mind. That was courageous for a scientist. It may be more basic in the non-verbal or non-noise levels.
Franci: More soulful communication. Now we have the writings of your friend, Bobbie Sandoz, who wrote Listening to Wild Dolphins after living a long time with dolphins in Hawaii. She sums it up eloquently:
“Once we develop an awareness of conversations among species as well as between them, our universe becomes more animated and alive. When we also learn from new breakthroughs in quantum physics that we all share a unified mind, or common space where all of our thoughts and our consciousness live, we can see how easily these conversations can reach out and be overheard by others both nearly and far away. This understanding explains the claim people make that once you have swum with dolphins, other dolphins from different parts of the world will recognize you. It’s as if the dolphins use a telepathic link along the network of shared space for broader communication, and this same link may be what the whales use to communicate the song they will sing each year. Even before hearing this I had noticed that wherever I traveled, the dolphins and whales in each area seemed to greet me with recognition.”
Cleve: I remember that with Lilly’s work things started to happen when they learned to let the dolphins teach them, rather than other way around.
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